The Wisdom We Share | Spirituality, Consciousness & Inner Leadership

Surviving Grief and Starting Over in Midlife with Betsy Ronel

• Anjani Amriit & Robin Wald • Season 1 • Episode 21

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 42:34

Message us with your thoughts, burning questions, or reflections, we’d love to hear from you.

“It’s your choice every day. To survive, or to begin to thrive.” 

Betsy Ronel learned that the hard way. Her husband was killed when she was 40. She lost the next decade to grief before she decided, at 52, to claim her life back.

This is not a tidy bounce-back story. It’s an honest conversation about the slow kind of grief, the kind where getting out of bed and brushing your teeth is the whole win for the day. From there, Betsy rebuilt: a new career at 48, a home she bought and runs alone, her boys, and a reality dating show that accidentally led her to a whole new chapter.

What stayed with us is her honesty. She’s not sure she’s ready to love again. She’ll tell you the grass is never greener, that you’d never want anyone else’s problems, and that the two words holding it all together are simply: keep going.

If you’ve ever lost someone, or lost a version of your life, this one will meet you where you are.

IN THIS EPISODE

• The decade Betsy lost to grief, and the moment she chose to thrive
• Why getting out of bed can be the whole win, and why that’s enough
• “Home is everything,” and why community is its own kind of home
• Saying yes to a dating show, and what stepping out of your comfort zone really teaches you
• Grief as an opportunity to unfold, in Betsy’s own words

 CHAPTERS
 00:00 "Keep going": the mantra that gets her through
 01:05 Welcome to The Wisdom We Share
 01:45 Meet Betsy Ronel: widow, broker, podcaster
 02:57 Why home is everything
 05:55 The broker who talks to the houses she sells
 10:24 Inner wisdom, intuition, and honouring a space
 11:50 Midlife crisis to comeback: the story behind the tagline
 13:13 Losing her husband at 40, and the decade she lost with him
 18:55 Saying yes to a dating show in her own home
 23:43 What jumping out of your comfort zone really teaches you
 26:30 Why community is its own kind of home
 32:00 Santa Fe, soul homes, and the places that call us back
 36:30 Her one piece of wisdom: be grateful for your own problems
 38:30 Grief as an opportunity to unfold 

ABOUT BETSY

Betsy Ronel is a New York real estate broker who believes home is everything, and the host of the podcast “Heavens to Betsy: Midlife Crisis to Comeback.” Widowed at 40, she rebuilt her life and career from the ground up, and brings humour, heart and hard-won wisdom to grief, reinvention and starting again.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betsyronelrealestateandlife/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heavenstobetsypodcast

CONNECT WITH BETSY

Loved this conversation? Follow Betsy’s story and her honest, funny, practical wisdom over on her page:
https://www.instagram.com/betsyronelrealestateandlife/

The Wisdom We Share is hosted by Anjani Amriit and Robin Wald. Subscribe, share, and leave us a review.

Thanks for listening to The Wisdom We Share.
If this episode sparked something in you, follow, leave a review + share it with someone who’s walking a similar path.

🔗 Connect with Anjani

🔗 Connect with Robin

🎧 New episodes released regularly
Be sure to follow to get all new episodes and insights direct to your inbox.

SPEAKER_02

I would say this. I would say the grass is never greener and be grateful for your own problems because you would never ever want anyone else's. As grim as your life may look, those are your problems for a reason. We are not punished by our problems. We are to live through them for reasons we may not know. You gals would be able to help us figure that one out. And I've already said this, but this is my casual mantra. Keep going. If the only thing on a bad day that you can do is get out of bed and take a shower or get out of bed and brush your teeth, and that's it, don't judge yourself. That's your win for the day. It takes sometimes moment by moment, hour by hour, day by day. And if you don't like this moment you're in, count to 60, you'll get to the next. If you don't like this hour you're in, close your eyes, read a book, stare out the window, you'll get to the next hour. Next day, and you'll keep evolving and going, but keep going. Those are my favorite two words. Keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to the Wisdom We Share podcast, where ancient truths and modern intelligence weave together to inspire, ground, and shape us for a wiser, awakened life. I'm Angenet Amrit.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm Robin Wald. And together we bring you fascinating conversations from the world of spirituality, science, and human behavior so you can connect to your own inner wisdom, joy, and clarity, elevating the way you actually live your life. Hello, Betsy.

Meet Betsy Ronel: widow, broker, podcaster

SPEAKER_01

We're so happy to have you on the show today. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me on. Absolutely. So for everyone, Betsy Ronell is a successful real estate broker in New York who believes that home is everything. She helps people's dreams of home come true, whether it's through selling or buying or beyond the real estate. We'll talk about your podcast as well. Betsy is the host of her advice-driven podcast, Heavens to Betsy, midlife crisis to come back. Betsy tells it like she sees it widowhood, single motherhood, financial chaos. Betsy survived it all and is standing stronger, sharper, and funnier than ever. Betsy has lived experience and wisdom about how grief can be an opportunity and how to pivot, rebuild, survive, and thrive when life tosses you about in unexpected ways. Yes. Amen. Amen. So really, really happy for you to be on the show

Why home is everything

SPEAKER_01

and for a very rich conversation, I'm sure. I would love to start with this home is everything. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_02

You know, I mean, the house, a home is your four walls, is where the most intimate moments of life happen on so many aspects, so many levels. And to me, my home, even as a child, was always the most my childhood home was the most important, most sacred place to me in the world. I don't know why I loved it so much. I just did it still in my dreams. And then when I ended up in real estate, I thought this makes total sense. I sort of came full circle. It's meaningful. It means everything.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_02

Riverdale, New York.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. Not far from me. I grew up in Brooklyn. What was that home like? Was it a house? Was it an apartment? Big, small, fancy, like like what was it that made it so special for you?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I didn't realize what it was because it was the only home I knew. But now that I look back, and when I got older, as I look back, I realized I grew up in quite a very grand manner. But you know, when you're in it, you don't know. Just like if you're rich or you're poor, you don't really know the difference because it's your life, right? It is what it is. And you know, no one's making a big deal about it. But apparently I grew up in a very privileged way, and I grew up in one of the grand estates along sort of the Gold Coast of Riverdale. And we overlooked the Hudson River. It was quite beautiful. And that house, you know, it was a very old house, and it was very, very large, and it had grand grounds. And it was actually quite scary for a little girl to grow up there because my brother and sister are much older than me. So I spent a lot of time alone if I wasn't with my friends. And I was always sort of spooking myself in my house and on the property and like daring myself to go here and there. But yet I was never afraid. There was never sort of any dark energy there, anything like that. It was always always very pure, and I always felt very held. It was so strange. I mean, I was a little girl and I didn't even know what this meant, but I've always felt very held by my house. And when we finally moved out, I was devastated. It was like the first death I had really experienced. I was absolutely rocked. I mean I again, that house is still in my dreams. That's how connected to that house I was. And I didn't know what it was in terms of the superficiality. It just was my home. And I felt it.

SPEAKER_03

I think the best memories we have are places where we do feel at home, where we feel safe. And, you know, I often refer to them as the sanctum sanctorums, the the spaces that are our sanctuary. And it's interesting that you help people find their homes now, and possibly I would imagine their forever homes in the work that you do. Tell us a little bit more, because I know you're not just a real estate agent, but you also you help people in this way. So tell us a little bit more about the good that you do as well in addition to the good that you do in your

The broker who talks to the houses she sells

SPEAKER_03

in your work and your job.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. I mean, to me, so I come from an entire family of doctors, major major league doctors, a few lawyers, throwing it, good lawyers. And so I come to the real estate practice with sort of a physician's mindset. I I look at my clients sort of as my patients, not in a negative way at all, but to give so much caring and I give it from the heart. And I'm a person, I always say I'm a person first, a broker second, because I care so deeply that every client's needs are met, that they are happy, that the transaction goes as best as we can possibly make it, and that I can help them see their way through to the end that they want. And sometimes transactions fall apart, and it's actually a very good thing for that client. So I really do it from a heart center and with great feeling and respect for the process, the people that are trusting me to help them buy or sell this house. And for the house itself, I have tried talk to all the listings I have, I always talk to these houses. I do this by myself, I talk to them all, I make a relationship with them, and I'm like, it's time to let this family go, bring in the new one. I have these conversations all the time. So if ever there are, you know, when I tell families that have cameras in their house, I'm like, listen, if you hear me talking, I am in my right mind, it's just the way I do my business. So, and then from that, I do try to give back a percentage of each commission to my community in which I live and predominantly sell, which would be the northern Westchester area. So that's how I, you know, because I believe the business comes from here. And for those to whom much is given, much is required. Uh, there are plenty of agents that make way more than I do. Of course, I'm still sort of in the beginning stages of this, but I still am so grateful for the business and for the trust that I feel obligated energetically to give back because to me, money is also energy, it's a give and take, it's a sharing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love to listen to you speak because you are speaking a language of energy, you're speaking a language of love, of values, of dreams, of the sacred. And I I don't know, is this a common kind of way that realtors go about their business in general? I feel like you're quite exceptional and that, you know, most people maybe think of it as a business and a way to support themselves and their family, and that they like the nature of, you know, transactional, whatever the I mean, there's a lot involved. Oh, yeah. It's very I mean, my realtor did so much work for me when I was selling my house. And I know that she did a lot of hand holding because it's stressful and we weren't getting the price we want. We had to drop price, and then COVID hit and all these upsets and bumps along the way. And there was so much work she did for me, but I feel like you're bringing something also almost mystical to the process of it.

SPEAKER_02

It's not deliberate, it's just the way I look at life. And so, but you see, you went through it, it's a lot, we do a lot, and it becomes a very intimate relationship while we're involved with that client and that transaction. I'm not a businesswoman, I run a business. This is how I pay my bills and put food on my table. That's the business piece of it. But I see beyond that, and I just, you know, I think, okay, I attract my tribe, your vibe attracts your tribe. So every now and then there's been a client I've had to let go because I just I know this is gonna be a miserable, you know, trial for both of us. And I'm like, this is not gonna work. It's rare, but it's happened a couple of times. And they are always so insulted. I'm like, listen, this is for your benefit as much as mine. You're gonna go find the right match of a broker. I am not that person because they'll want me to like, you know, gut someone in a negotiation. That's not what I do. You know, a happy negotiation is people who everyone gives a little and gets a little, and then everyone feels they've lost a little something and it's even. There's like it's and you're actually both sides are the team because we're all working towards the same end, which is selling the house. So it's it's a lot of like, I don't know, it's and all the really strong brokers around here have the same ethos. They may not do it the way I do because each one of us is different and we have our own strengths and disciplines and just how we think, but I really do, without trying, bring a lot of the energetic component to it because that's just how I think and how I am.

SPEAKER_03

I think that right there is wisdom that it's in its inner wisdom. And the whole reason why Robert and I

Inner wisdom, intuition, and honouring a space

SPEAKER_03

wanted to create this podcast was to showcase the inner wisdom that we have as humans, particularly women. You know, we have this internal wisdom that has been persecuted out of us for eons, that is now coming through in all areas of life. And I just love that you are kind of Marie Kondoing the house by talking to the house. People don't realize, I think, that houses have just as much of an energy body than people and relationships. And there are little beautiful beings that live in and around the houses that, you know, I've got construction going on next to me at the moment, and they're digging these massive holes in the earth, and they have not done any ritual to let the the earth beings know that they're coming, and please can you move? And you know, a ritual in asking for permission, none of that. And guess what happened? It filled the hole filled up. Exactly. And it and it will continue to fill up, and I know it will because that honoring hasn't happened. And so I really appreciate that you are bringing that wisdom to the area of life that you're moving through. And you say your motto is, you know, your motto is midlife crisis to come back.

Midlife crisis to comeback: the story behind the tagline

SPEAKER_03

It's not just a tagline. How did you kind of first know that your story wasn't really going to be one of surviving, but one of thriving and more tapping into your inner wisdom? Because often those cathartic processes open us to our inner wisdom.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. That's a great, great question, and one I've given a lot of thought to in my process. So my husband was killed when I was 40. He was 45, killed in a car accident. And my entire decade of my 40s, I say it was wasted, I know that it wasn't, but I wasn't living in my 40s. I was in shock the first four years, then in free fall the last six years. And then when I turned 50, I began to say, it's time to ground yourself. It's time to find who you are. An entire decade has been lost in some respect. And it's time to stop surviving and it's time to choose thriving. So that took a couple of years too. But I would say at about 52, I began to turn it to we're gonna thrive. We're gonna take the grief with us, we're gonna take what's happened with us, and we're okay because we're moving forward. We're gonna, we're still here. As my mother used to say, life is for the living, so you better get to it. So that's what I've been doing. And I got tired of just surviving, was really what it was. I got tired. And I'm like, what do you? It's your choice. It's your choice every day to survive or begin

Losing her husband at 40, and the decade she lost with him

SPEAKER_02

to thrive. Doesn't mean the troubles turn away, or you know, go away, turn off. It doesn't mean any of that, but it means you're making a choice to move forward with more positive energy, more deliberate action, more deliberate thought and choice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I want to maybe surprise listeners a little bit and bring up that I know that you part of the moving forward was a question of am I open or ready to be in a relationship again? Do I want to date? And if I do want to date, what am I looking for? I mean, for a while you were raising your boys, and I know a mom raising boys, it's very hard to have a romantic life or it's it's just not the priority, right? You know, but but now you're at a point where your boys are, you know, getting older, and you know, you so so you were on a pilot of a reality dating show. And I want to hear about this because I am the hugest fan of you know unscripted dating love. I watch every one of those. Tell me what the show was about, let listeners know, and and what was your experience like on that?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I had a great experience, first of all, but second of all, it was a really fun show. The premise was excellent. The title is gonna sound a little, you know, less than kosher, but it was a really good premise. It's called Five, it was called Five Guys a Week. It was on Lifetime. It originally started in the UK. Somehow it didn't really take off there and thrive there. So somebody, I don't know how the networks work, but some network situation brought it here. Lifetime picked it up, and it was a wonderful premise. I didn't want to be on a dating show because I was like, okay, I'm a mother first. I have boys. This stuff will outlive me. I'm not gonna make out with strangers. This is just not who I am. And so it took them like a year to convince me to do it. And finally, they let me know the premise of the show when they were allowed to. It was women in their 20s all the way through their 70s, all walks of life, all shapes and sizes, all different backgrounds, all different some sort of social status. You know, I was one of two widows on there. It was really amazing. And we all, all of us but two, there were two girls that were not very nice, but the rest of us all really liked each other. We had a whole chat going, you know, and we'd watched everyone's episode every week and talking, oh my God, it's so funny. You know, because we didn't know anything. We weren't allowed to share what went on in our episodes with each other. So it was really, we were unveiling it to ourselves and one another each week. So I was supposed to be the finale, but then one of the not nice girls was like, I'm gonna be the finale. Um, whatever, lady, I got bigger fish to fry. If this is, you know, like my episode had the fireworks because it was supposed to be the finale. So enough said. Yours was kind of like the dribble off effect. Like nobody was watching after that. So it was fine. She was not a very nice person. But anyway, so I had a great time. And what I loved so much about it, and the reason I agreed to do it is because it was celebrating women. We weren't all Barbie dolls, we didn't all look like the, you know, gorgeous girls on The Bachelorette. I mean, uh, we just even the 20s-somethings didn't look. They looked like normal, beautiful women, each making their own way in their own unique iteration of humanity. And that's what I loved about it. And honestly, they were all such cool, and we were so, so different, but we came together and all except the two got along really great. And we were all polite to the two we didn't like, but they were just really not nice. But anyway, so the crew was fabulous. I got along great with the crew. It was like I had a whole production van parked out, like a truck, like a bus parked in my driveway for like seven days. We had, and it was very safe. The women were all very safe. So I had, and I'm totally spacing on his name, but he was great. He's from Atlanta. I had one of J Lo's one-time bodyguards as mine. So I loved him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The man you were dating?

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no. He was my body guard, he was my nice guy.

SPEAKER_03

Did you end up dating the bodyguard? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

He was married, not like the Kevin Costner or Whitney Houston movie.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He wasn't interested in me, and I wasn't interested in him, but he was so awesome and just I felt so cared for by the network and by everyone, all the crew.

SPEAKER_00

Well, tell us about the menu man. I will, I will. I want to hear the meeting last year.

SPEAKER_02

I had more fun with the uh crew. But anyway, so but the guys were great. So they pick the guys for you. It's kind of like blind dates. You give them your criteria and they do their very best to match up or like throw a little, you know, one-off in there. It was interesting. All the guys that they picked for me were really nice. I will say I have no objections to any of them. We all got along great. I had two rules when they were in my house. I said, don't touch me and nobody drink till you're throwing up because my house is nice and you're not going to damage my home. This is a TV show. Like, this is not our lives. So they were extremely respectful of that, I have to say. They made us breakfast every morning, the guys, and they just sort of they camped out together. They had their own little, you know, I don't know, cell world going over there. It was like this little nucleus of men, and they traveled in a pack, and then there was me, and I was kind of alone. So that's why I went off with the crew. It was really fun, but it was like one sort of cocktail party for an entire week. It was that surface level of communication. You go off on dates, but it all happened on my property. So it wasn't like we were going into town, and which is also just very strange and artificial, so it's it's odd. But I had a great time. I mean, no, I didn't make a match. You have to pick someone at the end. So I picked the one who made the most sense on paper, but none of them were were a match at all. Physically, I thought the guy who I picked was really cute, but that was it. He was, he was handsome, but that was all. But it was fun.

SPEAKER_01

Do you have any advice for women who are going considering dating, you know, after a loss like losing a

Saying yes to a dating show in her own home

SPEAKER_01

partner, right? And like what have you learned about yourself in terms of what you want and need in this next stage of life?

SPEAKER_02

Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm very nervous to date again, which is why I've put it off. I dip my toe in every now and then. I go on those apps and I'm like, okay, let me make sure I'm female and like you know, can function as a woman. And so I will go out to lunch or whatever with someone just to sort of dip my toe back in. But that's it, nothing ever happens. I don't know that I'm ready, to be perfectly honest. So my advice would be especially so it's it's kind of different if you if you had a divorce or an unhappy marriage, even if the spouse died, if the marriage wasn't fulfilling, that means that there's something you're looking for that's out there. So it's kind of still exciting and it can give you hope. And you're like, I I know what I really want is out there. When you had a really fulfilling marriage like I did, I honestly don't know what's left because I'm not putting him on a pedestal. If he were here now, I would kill him. But, you know, because I'm so mad at him. But you know what I mean? Like I we had a wonderful marriage in all of its, you know, ups and downs, but like a normal marriage. He he was the love of my life. He was for me perfect in pretty much every way. And so I don't know what will become of me in that realm, but I think that uh really what I want is my husband 2.0. Like if I have to, I he was great. I there's nothing I want that's different, just that this one stay alive, please.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I can I can still feel that pain as you were talking then in your heart. It's still very raw. I can feel it, you know. And it it must be incredibly difficult to lose the love of your life. It kind of reminds me of that movie that just came out, Eternity, where she had, you know, two loves in her life and she goes back to her, the guy who she spent all her life with. And it's a beautiful movie if you haven't seen it. I highly recommend it. And and it's it's something that requires, I think, a lot of courage. And I think you are demonstrating a lot of courage to go on something like that. I know people can bag reality TV and you know, wave it off as something trifle, but it what it what it can do is reveal human experiences and reveal them in ways to ourselves, even. And so what did you learn about yourself by going through that process? Because I'm I'm also interested sneakily, because I was asked to go on the Golden Bachelor last year. And I was like, I was like, no, I can't do that. What did you what did you what did you learn about yourself going through that process? What came out of it for you for you, for yourself?

SPEAKER_02

I learned that I could do things that I didn't think I could do, like putting myself on TV, even though nobody saw it. I still put myself on TV. I had Strange men in my home. I was told what to do by the production company and the directors. I had to wear makeup, which I don't normally do, and I had to wear a lot of it at times. And I just I was able to move with ease in a situation that was completely foreign to me. And I never even I never thought of being on TV really in that kind of capacity. And so it was just interesting. And also able to just the biggest thing was to welcome these five strange men into my house and be able to be, you know, a good hostess and polite and feel safe and know that I was going to make myself safe. God forbid anything should happen, although I never was worried. Every the network took great care of us and they made a very safe environment. But I I was able to do something that I never thought I could do in a very weird situation. And I did it, and that was a big deal. I mean, how many times did someone get to go on TV in their life if they're not an actress or actor? You know?

SPEAKER_03

I think it's really oh, I'm sorry. No, I was just saying it's very courageous, regardless of the subject matter. Yeah. It for me, it's about courage, it's about putting yourself into situations. I call it jumping out of planes, you know, you jumped out of a plane and you didn't know.

SPEAKER_02

Have you, Robin?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I did. I jumped out of a plane. It was really terrifying and also exhilarating. And then after I did it, I was like, okay, I've done that. I don't ever have to do that again.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Same. That's how I feel about the dating show. I'm good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. But but here's what I wanted to ask as a follow-up to that, which is it's an incredible thing to know that you challenged yourself way outside your comfort zone. And that in spite of some

What jumping out of your comfort zone really teaches you

SPEAKER_01

nervousness or fear or uncertainty, you still showed up. You still kind of had the bravery and the courage to try something, right? I'm wondering how and if you've applied that to other things in your life since. Because I feel like that's like it gives you an inner sense of your own strength. Like, oh wow, I could do that. If I could do that, then maybe I could also do this. Or do so have you used that lesson and applied it in other things since?

SPEAKER_02

This will sound quite dramatic, but yes, every day that I get out of bed, I push myself to get out of bed. I am not depressed. I am on LexaPro, so we're good. But I'm not a depressive person. I'm more anxiety. But since losing my husband, every day I have to give my baseline is different than everyone else's that hasn't gone through some kind of loss or whatever it is that may be keeping holding them back a little bit. Every day I put my feet on the ground. I'm like, here's another day. You're still above ground. Let's get after it. So that forced me to do something I never imagined doing, which was living a life without my husband, raising our kids alone, having to start a new career at 48, buying my own house alone, managing my house alone, managing our cars, managing our life, managing taxes, like all the stuff alone. I've just, I've never, I was very old-fashioned. I was like, I just want to be married and be a stay-at-home mom and wife. That was all I was good with that. That was my career drove, you know, choice. That was all I ever wanted to be. So to get up every day puts me in a in a position of strength because I forced myself to do it and go out into the world and face the world alone with all the uncertainty in which I live. So that's that's what that is. But I'll tell you this that dating show led me to this podcast. I wouldn't have my own podcast if it weren't for that dating show. So go figure. That's the universe.

SPEAKER_03

Everything opens doors when we move out of our comfort zone. You know, there's three zones we live in. The comfort zone, then we go through the groom zone, which is really, really uncomfortable doing something new, something we have a lot of resistance around. And then that leads us into the growth zone. And I see you just you're just such a great role model for that. I I relate to you having lost my brother and my dad, and recently my two fur babies who were my children, you know, it's the same for me. I have I wake up and I have to remind myself. Okay, I have to have a ritual for reminding myself, okay, I'm going to get up today and I'm going to move through this day. So I I really relate to that. And thank you for sharing your practice because I know a lot of our listeners can also relate to that. You also give back through civic engagement. You know, how does community care shape your sense of personal success, meaning, and fulfillment? And

Why community is its own kind of home

SPEAKER_03

tell us what kinds of things you're involved in.

SPEAKER_02

So I really love wherever I live. I've been like this since I was in college. Like I just get involved, whether I even choose to or not, it finds me. And wherever I am, that's where I try and bloom. So I love where I live right now. And I think giving back, yes, monetarily is important, but many people can't do that. I mean, there are times when I can't do it, but I do the I give a smaller amount. I give the best that I can at the time, depending on the year. But you can always give your time. Even if you work a full 50, 60, 70 hour week, there's still time you can give back to your community and people that you care about. So I find getting out into the community and meeting the people amongst which I live just enervating. I meet people on my different board positions that I never would have met otherwise. It widens your circles, it gives you a different purview, it lets you into people's lives that you may otherwise never have met and you learn different stories. I just think it grows your world and it's not a job, it's all volunteer. So it's all good effort, good effort, good energy, and a willingness to commune together over a common interest. So I really I enjoy that very, very much. And then I forgot the second part of your question. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03

That's okay. It's it's about being active and activism and not in a revolutionary sense, but an evolutionary sense. And I do find that statistically it's shown that women want more than just a job. They want purpose, they want meaning, they want to be involved. Indigenous cultures say that women are the glue of community, and you are naturally doing what's within you, that wisdom. You're also performing karma yoga, which is giving, forgiving, and serving, which I think a lot of us raised in a modern Western world aren't exposed to. And so I think it's great to have people like yourself on the podcast who are doing it and revealing how rich it is to do something and give back to the community. So, Robin, do you want to follow on from that one?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I actually do. I I was gonna reflect that community is also home, right? Home isn't just the four walls that we live inside with our partner or children, our fur babies. Home is also the communities we belong to. Yes. When I was when I was going through my divorce and I knew I was gonna have to sell my house as part of that agreement when my son graduated high school, I was looking all over the country at places where I thought I could find home. And it was never about the apartment or the house or any of that. It was about would I find community in this place? And ultimately I decided to stay in Westchester because I had a very, very deep, strong love for my community here at my synagogue that I've been part of for 28 years. I've been teaching there for over 20 years. And these are my people. These are the people who would take the shirt off their own back to help me. And they like in we show up for each other, we help each other, we are supportive, we are learning together, growing together, laughing, crying, like that's home to me. So I knew like, yes, I liked Portland, Oregon. And I was looking in different areas, you know, but home is like who are your people when things are tough? And when the getting out of bed in the morning feels like, can I face another day? Who are the people who remind you to show up for spiritual practice to feel your strength, to feel loved? So I'm wondering if you could, you know, speak to that as well. Like the that, how does community serve as home? And when you speak to people just buying and selling houses, like, do you also encourage them to really look at and understand how they might fit into community?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, absolutely. In fact, there was just a client that I was referred to, they've since started looking elsewhere, but they didn't know anything. They were focused on a price point. And I said, listen, we can find your house for your price. That's not a problem. But where do you want to live? And they didn't understand, well, we want to live in a certain distance from my husband's work. Okay, but where? There's a gazillion towns within, you know, a 30-minute radius of your husband's office. And they never quite got what I was saying. So, yes, I always have people go and really feel what these towns try the towns on. We try houses on, we need to try the towns on. And it is so important. Most of my clients that are buyers do come to me and they've already like, we have friends here, we visited here for years, we really want this town. And so then what I say is, well, we may not be able to get a house in this exact town. So would you be open to the neighboring towns? In real estate, there's always compromise. Nothing is ever, even a house that you built, and I built many of my own, you always look and there's always something you could have done better, or something that really isn't the right decision in the end. It's never perfect. Life is never perfect. So I'm always encouraging everyone, yes, try on the environment in which you're going to live and your kids are going to go to school and you're going to shop at the supermarket. Where are you going to ride your bikes? Where are you going to walk around? It's got to feel good. And so when my husband died, we were living in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And that is like my soul home, New Mexico has been drawing me out there since I was a young girl. And I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_01

We can look at your astrology for that. We should do a relocated chart in Santa Fe, see what's running through there.

Santa Fe, soul homes, and the places that call us back

SPEAKER_01

Okay, because very strong reason why you're pulled to that place. It won't leave me.

SPEAKER_02

And I line a moon line. Yeah. Okay. We'll do a reading on that. Because when I was a little girl and the Partridge family did an episode and they mentioned of all the cities in the world, Albuquerque, New Mexico, I was probably six. And I was like, that's the weirdest name for a town. I was six years old. I had no reason to mark it in my mind. I never forgot it. And then when I was 18, my art teacher said, you know, that you paint like Georgia O'Keefe. And I said, Who's that? Because I knew all the classics and whatever and the oddball artists, but I didn't know who Georgia was. And so she showed me this book. And I said, This is a beautiful book in and of itself. The book itself, physically, was beautifully made. And I said, I wonder where this book was, you know, published. So I looked and it said the University of New Mexico Press. What's that? I went down the hall to our school library, and that was when you looked at universities in those, you know, three-inch or four-inch thick books, not online, folks. And I looked at it, I was like, University of New Mexico.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

And I already gotten into Parsons School of Design by then. And my parents were like, yeah, checks made. You're going to Parsons. That's where you know you're supposed to be an artist. That's where you're going to go. Okay. And I with a little turn of events, I was like, sorry, guys, I'm not going there. I'm going to the University of New Mexico. So I went out there for one year. I promised them I would stay for one year. And then I went back and I started at Parsons. Okay. So everyone had, everyone gave a little and got a little. Like it's okay. And I fell in love. But I and then I fulfilled my promise to my parents and I came back. But it's always been a pull for me. It's always been my sole home. But after my husband died, we moved back here to New York about five years later. Because this is my home home. Like I grew up here. These trees are familiar to me. The smell of this air is familiar to me. The light is familiar to me. The pattern of people is familiar to me. The speed at which we move is familiar to me. So we had lived that life and it was a wonderful life. And now it's time to live this life because New York has always been good to me. Always I've had good things happen to me in New York. So New York loves me. I love New York. And I came home to go back to work.

SPEAKER_03

I think we all have we all have spiritual homes. I know for me it was the same. I actually have been to Albuquerque as well. And it's a deeply spiritual place. It's got a lot of indigenous ceremony in the land there. And often we're called back to these sacred places to reclaim parts of our past lives, parts of our soul fragments. In certain incarnations, we go and reclaim those. And you know, in Vedic astrology, they talk about the mapping of the of the planet and our astrocartography, where it shows you where we've had past lives and so where we have, you know, favorable and unfavorable lines, depending on what we've done in the land there. So it's such a rich wisdom to bring for our listeners to learn about these things, you know, about sacred sites and spiritual homes versus, you know, like you say, our home home. So with that wisdom, what wisdom for anyone listening here, as we wrap up, would you like to impart from all of your life, not necessarily what you know, selling and buying houses, because that in itself is a beautiful

Her one piece of wisdom: be grateful for your own problems

SPEAKER_03

act of love that you offer. What one piece of wisdom would you like to share with our listeners that maybe you haven't spoken about yet?

SPEAKER_02

I would say this. I would say the grass is never greener and be grateful for your own problems because you would never ever want anyone else's. As grim as your life may look, those are your problems for a reason. We are not punished by our problems. We are to live through them for reasons we may not know. You gals would be able to help us figure that one out. And I've already said this, but this is my casual mantra. Keep going. If the only thing on a bad day that you can do is get out of bed and take a shower or get out of bed and brush your teeth, and that's it, don't judge yourself. That's your win for the day. It takes sometimes moment by moment, hour by hour, day by day. And if you don't like this moment you're in, count to 60, you'll get to the next. If you don't like this hour you're in, close your eyes, read a book, stare out the window, you'll get to the next hour. Next day, and you'll keep evolving and going, but keep going. Those are my favorite two words. Keep going. That gets you through everything, and you can do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's it's a powerful message because it's really about survival. And it's also about a certain faith and trust in yourself and your own resilience, and that whatever may come, we just have to get there to know. It could be something beautiful and wonderful and opening us up. And we won't know unless we just keep moving forward and arrive in that moment. So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_02

And I'll also say this you guys mentioned it before. Grief is an opportunity. Whatever you're grieving is an opportunity. It doesn't matter if it's a fur baby, your husband, God forbid, your child, your human child, a relative, friend, whatever. Grief is an opportunity to unfold. So when you're ready to uncoil from the shock and the pain of it, see what you open to because it's there to be an unfolding and an evolution in you because you're still here. So if we're still here, that means we have work to do. So and it's you survive first, but then when you can get into the thriving, and that's what I've begun to do. I've made a decision. It's time to thrive.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's it's it's so important to understand that there is a great unraveling to be had through grief. And I, you know, I should know I've had a lot of it in my life, and I couldn't agree more with you, Betsy. So thank you so much for coming on. Where can where can people find you if they want to find you?

SPEAKER_02

You can find me. Let's see, where am I? I'm on Instagram at Betsy Ronell Life and More or Life and Real Estate and More. I don't know, just type in Betsy Ronell. I will come up. And then TikTok, it's Heavens to Betsy Podcast. And then my podcast, Heavens to Betsy, every Tuesday a new episode drops. And Robin is going to be on one, not this week, but the following week.

SPEAKER_01

We had so much fun recording, and I love the format and definitely listen in. It's super, super fun. And Betsy will definitely make you laugh and bring really good advice and insight as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we had a great, we had a great recording. That was really fun. So yeah, Robin will be on not this Tuesday, but the following Tuesday, the first one of February. That's what you'll be. Great.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Really appreciate you and everything you had to share and being so honest and open about your journey and all that you've learned through it. Really appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02

It's truly my privilege, and thank you for you know taking time to be with me and letting me be on and share my story. And I hope it helps even one person. That's why we do this, right?

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. It really is. Thank you so much, Betsy. And this is the wisdom. This is the wisdom we share. Thank you. Thank you, girls.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for tuning in to the Wisdom We Share podcast. We hope today's episode sparked some new insight, imagination, and practical tools you can integrate into your daily life.

SPEAKER_03

Continue this journey with us by subscribing, sharing, and dropping us a review. Until next time, stay wise.

Head Shot

Anjani Amriit

Host
Head Shot

Robin Wald

Host
Head Shot

Betsy Ronel

Guest